EP 16 | The Hidden Dangers of 12-Step Skincare for Teens

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon Skin, the podcast where science meets nature to celebrate the story of your skin.

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Your skin is a living canvas, ever evolving, deeply personal and uniquely yours.

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Each week, we'll dive into the science of healthy skin, share empowering stories and uncover transformative self-care rituals.

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We're here to help you embrace every phase of your journey with confidence and care.

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Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Listen to your Skin podcast by Moon and Skin.

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I'm your host, dr Jen Haley, and today on the podcast I have a friend and colleague, dr Brooke Jeffy.

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She is a fellow board-certified dermatologist with a very unique practice.

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She has a concierge medical dermatology and cosmetic practice in Scottsdale, arizona, where she applies her holistic approach to skin health.

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Dr Jeffy's particularly passionate about treating adolescent skin and creating routines for a lifetime of healthy skin, and this is what led her to found the company Between B-T-W-N.

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It's a skincare line for tweens and teens.

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She's a trusted media expert, mom, and loves all things dermatology and skincare.

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Welcome to the show, brooke.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Yeah, I'm so glad to have you, so I know you're here in Scottsdale, I know you have a good practice and you have a great social media platform where you educate people.

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What drove you to create the skincare line between and have a passion for educating?

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Yeah, so there's really a lot of factors that came together to leading to this.

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So one thing is that in my employed practice, before I launched my own practice, I started to feel very much like I wasn't able to educate my patients on some of the things that seem simple but really make a huge difference.

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Like I'll give an example, if I was seeing an acne patient, a younger patient, it's very easy to say, okay, let's start you on this medical regimen and then just be sure you wash your face.

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But how were they washing their face?

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Are they actually washing their face?

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Are they actually washing their face?

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Are they getting any benefit from doing that?

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Taking enough time to do it?

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So there started to be all these lifestyle factors that I began to appreciate and that's just one simple example, but other things too, that I felt like as I was learning more about lifestyle factors and their application to skin health that I wasn't able to address in, you know, short appointment times.

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So that really led me to want to create a brand, which between initially sort of just started out as going to be an educational brand, to try to teach kids some things about lifestyle and how to wash their face and how to, you know, parents to help them choose the right products.

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And then it kind of evolved as I saw more and more patients and parents asking me well, what should I use?

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Like we used to say, okay, go get a Cetaphil cleanser, for example.

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There weren't that many products that they had, but as they've grown they have multiple different lines and it's just more and more confusing for parents to figure out what to purchase.

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So I saw this white space in the market.

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There are certainly now in the last couple years, a handful of brands like myself that have really been focused on teen and tween skin health that have come to market, but at that time there really wasn't anything that was specific.

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So that's really what prompted me to think, okay, there is this white space as well.

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Let's do the education piece and let me see if I can provide some products that really make it simple for parents to know that these products that they would come to me for as a brand are okay for their young kids' skin and trustworthy.

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I have chosen to a certain beauty standard in skincare called Credo for clean beauty.

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As well as just avoiding the whole discussion about hormone disruptors, I just whether or not that's true or not chose to leave those out of my products.

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So again, just parents could feel comfortable with it.

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Okay, let's talk about clean beauty a little bit, because it's a term that's thrown around, so what do people use it as?

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How do they differentiate whether somebody's just throwing the term clean beauty versus whether it's really a clean product?

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Well, I think all of it is just throwing a term around, because there is no standard definition of clean beauty.

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There are some, so there's no fully 100% agreed upon standard.

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Now, I mentioned that with my skincare line we did choose to go along with one company's standard.

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So there are a couple of these groups that are trying to make a standard definition and one of them is Credo Beauty.

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So we did decide with Between to, you know, follow those standards.

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But those are still just kind of you know, arbitrary standards out there that have to be agreed upon.

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So a company can mean anything.

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It can mean referring to their ingredients that they're defining as clean, whether or not that's true or not.

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It can refer to, like, their sustainability practices.

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So the bottom line is it can kind of mean anything to the brand.

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Right, yeah, so okay.

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So what, how do you spell Credo?

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C-r-e-d-o?

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So they would look for that on the label.

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Yes, there are some brands that would say that they're Credo beauty compliant.

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Credo is also a website and they sell brands that meet their standards.

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Okay, and how is that different from like Leaping Bunny standards?

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So Leaping Bunny is more of a cruelty-free standard, at least from what I understand.

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That's how I understand it too.

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Yeah so there's cruelty-free.

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That's another certification that a brand might put forth as something that they feel is important.

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Yeah, so there's cruelty free.

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That's another, you know, certification that a brand might put forth as something that they feel is important.

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Okay.

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I think that's so important for people to hear about clean beauty because it's so easy to just pronounce that you're all of these things.

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I mean we see it all the time as dermatologists.

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I was blown away when I was at the Science of Skincare Summit last year and realized that I think about 17% of social media information is coming from dermatologists.

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And just for those of you who don't know, we went to high school, then four years of college, four years of medical school, four years of just studying skin, basically, and then years and years of practicing just skin.

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And someone can give out information nowadays and people say, oh, I saw it on the internet.

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I'm like what in the world?

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I mean, the first thing I learned in college was to look at the source, and no one's looking at the source anymore.

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Like, who are people getting information from and why would we trust it?

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Like, what's their background?

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I mean, over 20 years, I've seen so many trends come and go, so I get it.

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It's really hard as a dermatologist who's in such a busy practice, but when you see people following good guidelines and good science-backed skincare regimens and then they're destroying their skin at home with other things that they find online, it can be quite disturbing.

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So what are some of those things that you see people doing, or that you saw some of the tweens and the teens doing that were disrupting your acne recommendations?

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Sure, I mean, one thing is just multi-step regimens.

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So there are.

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You know, kids are seeing influencers and who they deem are their peers online and, just like what you said, they feel like, oh, this is someone I should trust.

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Or they're just constantly seeing in social media so they feel like, oh, this is something I should be doing.

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But one huge thing that I see is multi-step regimens.

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That is harmful.

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So I've seen kids doing 12 steps in a routine, which who knows how they're.

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You know these products are interacting, what sort of benefit you can get, and really it's just a path to irritation.

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But that's a huge one.

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Also, the wrong products.

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Kids shouldn't be using products that have retinol, for example.

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So we'll very commonly see breakouts, irritation, rashes, when they're using these products that just really are not meant for them.

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But to your point about wanting to vet sources, when I am talking to parents or seeing my patients with acne, I'm always talking to them about like, why are you using these products?

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And when it comes up that you know they've chosen this product because of something that they've seen online, you know I talk to both of them and try to educate them and like, look, this is a great opportunity to have a discussion about how to vet sources.

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You know who should you be getting your information from in terms of skincare, and you know that's probably dermatologists, maybe cosmetic chemists, maybe some estheticians.

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But you know it's not your friend or it's not this influencer that's just getting sent PR boxes so that they can do these, get ready with me videos and gain followers.

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So I do.

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I do like it for a conversation starter in terms of helping parents and kids understand how to vet sources.

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Right, yeah.

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What's the intention behind why someone is doing something?

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Is it to educate you and empower you to have healthy skin?

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Is it just to sell you a bunch of stuff?

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That's a good question to ask.

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Okay, so, besides using multiple steps which can destroy the skin barrier, which we don't know how all the ingredients interact with each other?

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This is so interesting to me because when I was 10, 12, and I was babysitting, I would take all of my money and buy skincare and at the very most, I would be able to afford one or two products.

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I don't even know how they're affording 12 products.

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It seems kind of crazy.

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The world we live in.

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It's just changed so much, right?

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Yes, and I think you were ahead of your time.

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I mean, if you were even interested in skincare, I mean that's definitely not what I was really into spending my money in.

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But you're exactly right, it's it's.

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It's amazing now that these brands that have gone viral and have these very expensive products like Drunk Elephant, for example, glow Recipe you know they have expensive products and parents are willing to buy them.

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I guess or their kids are convincing them or and they just feel like that's a good way to spend their money.

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I mean, it's just a very interesting twist, you know, on what they're, what they're wanting to spend their money on, and it is definitely skincare.

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I mean we've seen an explode.

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There's been an explosion in that segment of the Gen Alpha, kids wanting to buy skincare and fragrance too.

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That's another big growing area, think so, I mean obviously, as a parent, you sometimes want to, you know purchase something your child wants.

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But a lot of times parents in my experience they don't realize that there are negative consequences of some of these products that their child might want.

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But it's tough because, you know, not every mom is a dermatologist, so they're just going by like, oh, my kiddo saw this, she wants it.

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I mean, it's no different than like when I was growing up, and you know there's popular kids that you know I was not the popular one.

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So it was like there are these kids out there and you know they have a cool brand of purse or jeans and I wanted that and you know, maybe eventually I'd convince my mom to get me one of those things.

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But those were not products that could hurt me.

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You know that's a good point.

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Yeah, well, yeah, it can hurt your bank account, but it doesn't hurt your body like misusing skincare, right?

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Yeah, that's really really interesting.

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I have boys, so I don't have this problem at all.

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I mean they're 18 and 20 now, so I don't have this problem at all.

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I mean they're 18 and 20 now and at the very most, if I can get them to use some like salicylic acid pads to wash their face, that was it.

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You know, like really not an issue at all.

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So okay, so what do what?

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What's a basic skincare regimen for someone who's, let's just say, 10, 11, even as young as 10, 11, starting to get some acne not so bad that they need prescriptions up until 15 or 16, you know where they're not really thinking about anti-aging per se.

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Like what is a basic regimen?

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And like, how do you get them rolling on this?

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Yeah.

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So I think that the products you want to try to steer your kids to in that age group are cleansers, moisturizers and sunscreens.

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They really do not need all these ancillary products, these facial mists that are popular, the serums I mean there may be some of those things in those categories that are okay, but largely you want to steer them to those categories.

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So when I have parents who have kids that want certain brands, I say, okay, if they really want that and you want to spend the money on that, that's fine, but stick to those core categories and then you can feel relatively safe.

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It's another conversation, though, about like are those truly great products for their skin?

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Because a lot of these more trendy products they have a lot of potential allergens in them fragrances, essential oils, things like this, which maybe are okay if there's a few.

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But I mean you'll see some of these ingredient lists where it's just way too many, I think, potential allergens than what a child's skin needs to be exposed to.

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So and then it's also talking to them about how to use these products.

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So are they actually getting the benefit of cleansing their face?

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How should they cleanse?

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Well, want to definitely be sure they're using enough product.

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So again, that kind of depends a little bit on the formulation, but being sure that they're cleansing for 30 to 60 seconds and then rinsing really well.

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A lot of times when I talk to my patients I end up finding out they put it on barely, you know, barely enough, and then they do it for like a split second and then it's washed off.

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I mean, so that is not enough for the cleanser to break down the oil, get rid of the debris, to keep their skin healthy and hopefully prevent those breakouts from worsening.

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The other thing that we don't talk about enough is sunscreen.

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I mean that is really the key, and I think all dermatologists would agree with this.

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That is really the key to keeping the skin looking young, keeping the skin barrier looking nice and healthy, being able to work optimally.

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The skin looking young, keeping the skin barrier looking nice and healthy, being able to work optimally, and that really those are the.

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That's the product that I want to be viral and have all sorts of viral brands of right, because that is definitely not something that most of my patients come in saying that they use, and I think that is really important, starting at a young age.

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How old were you when you started using sunscreen.

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Oh my gosh.

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I'm a terrible example because I was the person that worked in a tanning salon when I was in college and high school.

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So now I spend all of my time searching my skin for skin cancers and trying to reverse the damage that I did right.

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So I would say that my son though I have a 15-year-old son I have really tried his entire life to keep him covered.

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You know understanding the importance of sunscreen, but it's a struggle in those teen you know those years because they're trying to be independent.

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They don't understand the consequences.

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It's very hard to get them consistent, but I think if you can approach it like, your skin will be clear.

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If you have acne, this is an important part of treatment actually then you can make some headway.

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Yeah, I think that's an important point because kids don't think about consequences, like our brain is not fully developed until we're 26.

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So I'm constantly telling my sons I go, the reason we send young men to war is because somebody will say, charge, and you'll just go charge, I go.

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You say that to a 30-year-old man, they're going to be like hold on, let's think about this.

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If we charge, this might happen and this might happen.

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So I think boys just get up, they run out the door and they don't always think about putting on skincare.

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Meanwhile, having 6, 7, 8, 12 steps in a skincare regimen is almost a status symbol for girls.

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It's sort of like the longevity lifestyle is a status symbol for celebrities and you know, and that whole health optimization world.

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So it's an interesting dichotomy, for sure, when you're looking at skincare products.

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Okay, so I want to talk about the cleanser first.

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So with cleanser, are you an advocate of twice-a-day cleansing?

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And if someone can only do it once, what would you choose?

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Certainly if they can only do it once, it's bedtime.

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I agree, yeah.

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Yes, many reasons that that is important.

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If they're willing to do it twice, great, do it in the morning.

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I do think it's important, if someone is struggling with early acne starting to appear, that they should think about trying to make that second morning cleanse happen.

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Okay.

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And then why not retinol?

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If someone is struggling with acne, especially comedones, which are blackheads and whiteheads, we have always gone to retinoids.

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Whether it's prescription strength, always gone to retinoids.

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Whether it's prescription strength tretinoin or retinol, so why are you not?

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I am only not retinoid.

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If a child has normal skin, got it Okay.

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That's important to hear.

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Not everyone needs the same skincare.

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Exactly.

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Of course, this conversation about avoiding active ingredients like retinol, for example, definitely means when a child has normal skin, okay.

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So certainly retinoids we use to treat acne, even at a young age if it's indicated.

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But most kids you know I'm talking about the tween age group, for example their skin is really sensitive, so if their skin is normal, it's not breaking out.

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They are going to really struggle to tolerate retinoids and we know this as dermatologists too.

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I mean a lot of times you're having to implement, even in adults, strategies to help them be able to tolerate the retinoid.

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Right, you don't just necessarily go and have someone use it every day right out of the gate.

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You might be doing, you know, alternating it, cycling it with other, you know other products, so that maybe they're just using it a couple times a week, for example, and you're optimizing moisturization so the skin barrier stays healthy and hydrated.

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So but I will say like the most significant reactions I've seen from kids are when they are using retinoid products.

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Again, kids with normal skin who come into me.

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Their skin was fine, mom brings them in now because they have a rash or they're breaking out horribly and it is because they just started using some kind of retinol containing product that they thought looked cool.

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Right, and they're using too much too often.

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Too much too frequently and changing things up so quickly.

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Right and they're not getting any benefit from it.

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I mean, if their skin was clear before, we're not trying to treat acne?

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Kids have all the collagen they can have at that age.

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They don't need retinol to keep their collagen at that point Not starting to break down until the 20s, 30s, potentially right.

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So they don't need it for the collagen anti-aging benefit.

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So it's just all risk, no benefit in a kiddo with normal skin.

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Yeah, totally agree.

00:19:06.673 --> 00:19:07.355
I couldn't agree more.

00:19:07.355 --> 00:19:09.553
Okay, what about vitamin C?

00:19:09.553 --> 00:19:12.269
When do you think kids should start vitamin C?

00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:13.857
You think they should wait till their 20s.

00:19:13.857 --> 00:19:16.965
Is there really any benefit in your teens to starting vitamin C?

00:19:17.267 --> 00:19:20.681
So vitamin C can be a useful antioxidant in sunscreens.

00:19:20.681 --> 00:19:27.513
So I am not opposed to a child using a sunscreen that has antioxidant in it.

00:19:27.513 --> 00:19:28.221
I think that's great.

00:19:28.221 --> 00:19:40.809
But I think that there are problems when a child uses something like a 15% ascorbic acid, because that can be very irritating and again, it's just not something they're getting any benefit from.

00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:47.266
I mean, I guess it may be different if they have a lot of acne and they have pigment and maybe you're trying to improve that to some degree.

00:19:47.266 --> 00:19:53.184
But again, I'm talking more about a child who has normal skin and making the correct decisions.

00:19:54.127 --> 00:19:58.559
you know for that group Okay so, tween normal skin and making the correct decisions you know for that group.

00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.702
Okay so, tween normal skin wash in the morning.

00:20:02.702 --> 00:20:12.642
Basically put I like people to put the cleanser on, massage it in for about a minute, brush your teeth and then rinse, and then who should use moisturizer, who should not use moisturizer and what should they look for in a moisturizer when they're a tween?

00:20:13.163 --> 00:20:27.143
Yeah, so that's, and I'd also like to say that, like, choosing a cleanser and a moisturizer should really both be based on skin type and for kids, most of the time that's going to be erring on the side of products that are geared for sensitive skin.

00:20:27.143 --> 00:20:34.582
So in terms of a moisturizer, they're going to probably prefer lighter weight products.

00:20:34.582 --> 00:20:37.522
I mean just as a preference point.

00:20:37.522 --> 00:20:43.884
But looking for products, I mean in most major brands these days they tell you really what the skin type is for.

00:20:43.884 --> 00:20:48.063
So if they lean to normal, to sensitive skin, they can make some good decisions.

00:20:48.063 --> 00:20:50.109
What if it says all skin types?

00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:53.161
I think all skin types is probably acceptable too.

00:20:53.161 --> 00:21:02.728
You just wouldn't want to go with a product that says it's for really oily or acne prone skin If you're a child and you have normal skin.

00:21:02.969 --> 00:21:04.392
Okay, okay, that's really good.

00:21:04.392 --> 00:21:07.307
So what is your moisturizer?

00:21:07.307 --> 00:21:07.789
I have in it.

00:21:08.441 --> 00:21:11.851
My moisturizer is pretty simple.

00:21:11.851 --> 00:21:15.069
It has glycerin primarily.

00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:16.301
It has centella asiatica.

00:21:16.301 --> 00:21:18.307
It has centella asiatica.

00:21:18.307 --> 00:21:19.951
I love centella asiatica.

00:21:20.141 --> 00:21:21.224
I always struggle to pronounce.

00:21:21.224 --> 00:21:22.791
Yeah, it's go to cola also.

00:21:22.791 --> 00:21:45.271
It's been on my radar ever since I read an article, maybe 10 years ago, about how it can help reverse stretch marks, because we don't have a lot of things in dermatology that help put things back in the skin we're really good with lasers and we're good with things to lighten the skin and things to remove pigmentation or, you know, remove dead skin cells, but we have a hard time putting elastic tissue or collagen back in the skin right.

00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:54.413
And there was it was I think it was oral in that study they did like a dropper full of Gotu-Cola to help with striae which are stretch marks.

00:21:54.413 --> 00:22:02.531
But now we're seeing studies with mandelic acid on centella asiatica helping with dermatoporosis or thinning of the collagen in the skin.

00:22:02.531 --> 00:22:04.605
So I love centella asiatica.

00:22:04.605 --> 00:22:07.612
It's such a great ingredient yeah, I know that's interesting.

00:22:07.632 --> 00:22:09.761
I didn't know that about the striae.

00:22:09.761 --> 00:22:12.445
That's, that's interesting and it grows.

00:22:12.486 --> 00:22:13.346
This is really cool.

00:22:13.346 --> 00:22:17.191
So where it grows in Africa, the tigers.

00:22:17.191 --> 00:22:21.977
When tigers are wounded, they will roll around in it to help healing.

00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.309
I just learned this, yesterday actually.

00:22:26.321 --> 00:22:27.887
We probably saw it on the same place.

00:22:27.887 --> 00:22:29.771
Was it an article or?

00:22:30.115 --> 00:22:42.665
it was somewhere I was actually at, an Elta MD sunscreen talk and their newest sunscreen, the UV Skin Recovery, has it in there and they were sharing that same story.

00:22:42.665 --> 00:22:46.864
So very funny, I did not know that until yesterday, yeah.

00:22:46.904 --> 00:22:48.067
I heard it like a week or two ago.

00:22:48.067 --> 00:22:49.151
I thought it was so interesting.

00:22:49.151 --> 00:22:51.286
I mean, all the best things are in nature.

00:22:51.286 --> 00:22:55.423
We just don't want to deplete nature in finding these resources, like we were talking about offline.

00:22:55.423 --> 00:22:57.868
Okay, so you've got centella asiatica.

00:22:57.929 --> 00:23:24.185
You've got glycerin, which is a very nice moisturizer with low allergens, very low allergens um, glucomannan is in there, which is a supportive of the skin microbiome, and then there is a very low concentration of niacinamide oh, I love niacinamide, yeah, which I think is great, but I do think there are products for kids that are not appropriate because they have too much niacinamide, like you know.

00:23:24.185 --> 00:23:26.972
Above 5%, I think, is a little aggressive for kids.

00:23:26.972 --> 00:23:28.182
It can be.

00:23:28.344 --> 00:23:33.864
It's so interesting because it can be inflammatory when it's high percentage, but when it's low it's anti-inflammatory.

00:23:34.365 --> 00:23:37.511
Anti inflammatory when it's high percentage, but when it's low it's anti-inflammatory.

00:23:37.531 --> 00:23:44.144
Anti-inflammatory exactly and can be just like a super gentle exfoliant, Like Goldilocks, like more is not better.

00:23:44.144 --> 00:23:44.305
That's.

00:23:44.305 --> 00:23:46.394
That's the main thing I think kids need to get out of this conversation is more is not better.

00:23:46.394 --> 00:23:49.362
It's just more irritating and it makes your skin more angry and confused.

00:23:50.041 --> 00:24:02.155
Yeah, and then you know we are learning more and more right about the damage that chronic inflammation causes in our body right and in our you know, in our skin barrier as well.

00:24:02.155 --> 00:24:13.270
So, even if you're not seeing like some kind of dramatic rash, if you're using a product that kind of is not appropriate for your skin type you're young, you're using a retinol that you don't need.

00:24:13.270 --> 00:24:19.717
Maybe it's causing a little low level like inflammation and inflammation even and damage to your collagen.

00:24:19.717 --> 00:24:26.143
You know, we don't know the answer to all of that, but I think it's good practice to be sure that you're using something that's appropriate.

00:24:26.644 --> 00:24:37.374
Okay, so niacinamide, centella, glycerin, glucomannan, those are kind of the main ingredients in the moisturizer Morning and night, just night.

00:24:37.579 --> 00:24:38.723
What do you?

00:24:38.723 --> 00:24:40.128
How do people know what to use?

00:24:40.128 --> 00:24:46.871
Right, because a lot of acne or oily patients and even myself I tend to be pretty oily I don't use a moisturizer during the day.

00:24:46.871 --> 00:24:52.001
Once in a while I'll use a moisturizer with kojic acid because kojic acid can help with particulate matter.

00:24:52.001 --> 00:25:03.305
So if I'm in like a place of high toxins or pollution, like LA or New York, I will definitely put on a moisturizer with kojic acid to kind of help chelate that particulate matter.

00:25:03.305 --> 00:25:07.323
But for the most part I tend to run oily so I don't use a moisturizer during the day.

00:25:07.323 --> 00:25:11.622
So I know that a lot of teenagers they are hesitant to use a moisturizer too.

00:25:11.622 --> 00:25:16.276
Do you find it benefits their skin to use a moisturizer, or not.

00:25:17.358 --> 00:25:21.801
I mean, I definitely think everyone is everyone's preference, and how it reacts on their skin is different.

00:25:21.801 --> 00:25:26.824
I do think that they should be moisturizing, probably at least once a day, but maybe maybe it's just once a day.

00:25:26.824 --> 00:25:35.153
And then too, I wonder and with you as well, like if you're, I'm sure you're using a sunscreen every day, and so I feel naked without a sunscreen.

00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:42.150
I would be more comfortable sitting here naked with you than I would without sunscreen.

00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:43.535
I just wear tinted sunscreen and I'm lazy, so that's my makeup.

00:25:43.535 --> 00:25:43.736
Yeah, same.

00:25:43.736 --> 00:25:49.662
But you know, depending on what sunscreen you're using, it might have a little bit of some moisturizing and characteristic too.

00:25:49.662 --> 00:26:01.492
So, just because you're not using a dedicated moisturizer, you probably are getting I mean, most moisturizers, most sunscreens now will have like some element of moisturizing, especially if you're like an adult woman using it.

00:26:01.492 --> 00:26:03.104
For you know that last step.

00:26:03.104 --> 00:26:08.204
So it may be that you're getting a little bit of moisture there in the morning, but I think you know.

00:26:08.204 --> 00:26:10.951
Again, in terms of kids, I think the routine is also important.

00:26:10.951 --> 00:26:20.746
So you know, if they only want to use their moisturizer at night, that's fine, but I do think that they should probably be using it once a day.

00:26:20.746 --> 00:26:25.346
I mean, they are washing their face, they are exposing it to the elements.

00:26:25.346 --> 00:26:32.163
So I think a light moisturizer once a day is usually helpful and tolerated really well.

00:26:32.585 --> 00:26:36.521
So really it sounds like you're advocating three steps, two to three steps.

00:26:36.521 --> 00:26:40.590
So cleanse in the morning for 60 to 90 to two minutes.

00:26:40.590 --> 00:26:55.480
One to two minutes, basically, let the actives get in your pores, remove the dead skin cells, remove the dirt, remove all the toxins that built up in your skin for the day, and then moisturizer and, if I find, if someone's oily in their T-zone, just apply it on the outside.

00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:56.481
And the neck?

00:26:56.481 --> 00:26:59.028
The neck is part of our face which people overlook.

00:26:59.429 --> 00:27:02.403
Great point 30 years from now, our skin looks really different.

00:27:02.403 --> 00:27:04.127
Right and then sunscreen.

00:27:04.127 --> 00:27:06.000
So what do people look for in the sunscreen?

00:27:06.682 --> 00:27:16.125
Yeah, so with the sunscreen, you know, I think for younger skin there, and you know there's a lot of controversy about sunscreen and I don't know how much we want to get into that.

00:27:16.125 --> 00:27:17.007
But anything you want.

00:27:17.007 --> 00:27:22.502
But I think you know most parents feel more comfortable with that.

00:27:22.502 --> 00:27:28.845
I speak with with a mineral sunscreen and there are just great formulations now that are primarily zinc containing sunscreen.

00:27:28.845 --> 00:27:30.269
So that's usually what I recommend.

00:27:30.269 --> 00:27:46.212
But if someone is very sensitive to the feel of it because, again, a sunscreen is only as good as if it's actually getting applied to the skin so I mean I think all of us will generally tell patients whatever you're willing to use is the best sunscreen.

00:27:46.212 --> 00:27:57.105
But, like for a kid who might be struggling with a little bit of acne, maybe they don't like the feel necessarily of a mineral only sunscreen Although again, there's so many great ones out there now.

00:27:57.105 --> 00:28:02.683
But a chemical sunscreen I think is fine If that's what they're willing to use.

00:28:03.566 --> 00:28:05.832
Is SPF 70 better than SPF 30?

00:28:07.020 --> 00:28:09.727
You get the majority of protection in the SPF 30.

00:28:09.727 --> 00:28:13.703
I generally say 30 is the minimum you want to use for day-to-day use.

00:28:13.703 --> 00:28:18.372
If you're going to be at the beach, I do think you get a little, or the pool here in Arizona.

00:28:18.372 --> 00:28:25.992
You do get a little bit more incremental benefit if you bump up to a higher SPF, but the bulk of that protection is happening at 30.

00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:31.277
Yeah, because if it's applied correctly, it's blocking 98% of the raise.

00:28:31.277 --> 00:28:32.701
If it's applied correctly.

00:28:33.244 --> 00:28:39.507
And that's obviously another conversation about the amount that you're using, the amount that you're.

00:28:39.507 --> 00:28:42.181
You know the reapplication frequency that you're doing.

00:28:42.181 --> 00:28:43.265
How do you recommend people?

00:28:43.686 --> 00:28:44.449
apply sunscreen.

00:28:44.449 --> 00:28:46.395
I could tell you how I recommend it Sure.

00:28:46.556 --> 00:28:46.676
Okay.

00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:55.569
So I typically over the years, especially when I lived and worked in Colorado and Utah where we didn't have tinted windows in the car they weren't allowed.

00:28:55.569 --> 00:29:14.422
So I saw tons of skin cancers on the left side of the face and in men behind the ear, on the neck, which we still always do right, because most of us when we apply sunscreen we put it on centrally and blend it outwards, so it's thickest centrally and then it kind of dissipates and we get thinner amounts applied outwards.

00:29:14.422 --> 00:29:25.289
So I tend to like, while someone's in their bra, apply it starting at the base of the neck, bring it in from the outside of the face to the central part of the face and then you'll see the gaps on the central part of your face.

00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:41.803
And I apply it all the way up to the eyelids, on the eyelids to the eyelid margin, especially getting the area of the medial canthus, like that area against the nose, because we know that the sun coming in through sunglasses will bounce off the sunglasses and hit that area and we see a lot of cancers there.

00:29:42.345 --> 00:29:44.770
So we see these patterns on people year after year.

00:29:44.770 --> 00:29:52.523
So we see the gaps of where the sunscreen was not applied properly and people are getting hit a little bit extra with more dna mutations.

00:29:52.523 --> 00:30:00.528
Um, so that's kind of how I recommend people apply it and then still wear a hat because it's a backup plan.

00:30:00.528 --> 00:30:01.893
It's not.

00:30:01.893 --> 00:30:06.487
It gives people sometimes a false sense of security and then they stay out in the sun longer.

00:30:06.487 --> 00:30:08.491
So there's a little bit of a catch-22.

00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:09.981
Yeah, I know that's.

00:30:09.981 --> 00:30:13.840
Those are all definitely good points and very similar to what I tell my patients.

00:30:13.840 --> 00:30:18.951
I mean, when I'm in the mirror applying my sunscreen, I definitely keep these things that.

00:30:18.951 --> 00:30:26.201
I mean you'll see me like putting a ton of it on the upper cutaneous lip because I see so much, like you know, problems there.

00:30:26.201 --> 00:30:31.342
And like the eyelids, like you said, because people I think don't realize that you should be protecting those.

00:30:31.342 --> 00:30:35.147
But yeah, that's definitely a good conversation to have and a good strategy.

00:30:35.147 --> 00:30:36.931
I like what you're, you know what you're telling people.

00:30:36.931 --> 00:30:37.531
It's similar.

00:30:37.531 --> 00:30:41.226
But I do think we all probably see those tendencies.

00:30:41.226 --> 00:30:50.369
And then the hat is important too, right, because I mean we get a lot of exposure on the scalp and it's really hard to protect that area.

00:30:51.653 --> 00:31:11.111
I do always tell my patients you know, kids too like the more you can rely on just the sun, protective clothing and being covered, because you know you don't have to reapply that, you don't have to worry about it being messy and getting all over the place and then just try to focus the sunscreen where you can't cover.

00:31:11.111 --> 00:31:15.440
But obviously there's still areas that you have to use it on and you're right, most people don't reapply it enough that you have to use it on, and you're right.

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.249
Most people don't reapply it enough, they don't put it on thick enough.

00:31:19.249 --> 00:31:20.792
We use it way too sparsely.

00:31:20.792 --> 00:31:34.835
Women and kids if they're using like a tinted sunscreen, you can't rely on that for enough SPF because we don't layer on our makeup to the extent that we need to.

00:31:34.835 --> 00:31:36.179
I think I said tinted sunscreen.

00:31:36.179 --> 00:31:46.388
Tinted sunscreen is usually okay, but I mean, if you're relying on foundation with SPF, you're not putting it on thick enough to get that true SPF benefit.

00:31:46.388 --> 00:31:52.027
So I definitely prefer a sunscreen first and then, you know, foundation, if that's what you're going to do.

00:31:52.086 --> 00:31:53.500
Oh, that's great, I was going to ask you that.

00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:53.901
Okay.

00:31:53.901 --> 00:31:56.446
So tinted sunscreen is okay alone.

00:31:56.446 --> 00:32:03.355
But if you're doing foundation, that's not okay alone, then do tinted sunscreen first, then a foundation or any sunscreen, then a foundation.

00:32:03.355 --> 00:32:04.640
Exactly, okay Got it.

00:32:04.660 --> 00:32:05.000
Exactly.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.723
Okay, yeah, that's really really.

00:32:07.723 --> 00:32:19.619
Um, I lost my train of thought, but I was thinking of something when you were talking that I was like, oh my gosh, that's such a, that's such an eye-opening thing about, um, with the makeup and the tinted sunscreen.

00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.986
And I always tell, oh, I remember.

00:32:21.986 --> 00:32:32.886
I always tell the teenagers like when they go, oh, I'm gonna look so dorky when I go hiking with my friends, I say, well, it's better to look dorky one hour a day than it is to look really bad for the rest of your life.

00:32:32.886 --> 00:32:36.761
Then then you can look hot on the weekends, right, when you get dressed up.

00:32:37.344 --> 00:32:42.602
I know, but it is, it is so hard because, again, they just can't, they, they really struggle.

00:32:42.602 --> 00:32:45.901
We've already talked about this, but they just really struggle to appreciate those consequences.

00:32:45.901 --> 00:32:57.743
So trying to show them pictures of skin that's had way too much exposure and you know skin cancers removed and all this stuff, and I mean you gotta, we gotta, keep trying, though, right?

00:32:58.224 --> 00:32:59.529
yeah, so I mean.

00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:11.990
I think, for anyone listening, though, the key important components is to save your money and not get so many products, because it just will lead to irritated, angry skin, and you just need a couple steps in the morning.

00:33:11.990 --> 00:33:17.608
And it's good to get that routine down, because as you get older, you're going to want more for your skin.

00:33:17.608 --> 00:33:29.224
So, cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen in the morning, cleanser, moisturizer at night, um, maybe add in a vitamin c in the morning if you're in the sun or a high pollution area.

00:33:29.224 --> 00:33:31.692
I don't love ellis, the gorbic acid.

00:33:31.692 --> 00:33:36.541
I prefer, like thd, ascorbate or sodium ascorbyl phosphate or a more stable form of vitamin C.

00:33:36.541 --> 00:33:38.106
And what else Do they need?

00:33:38.106 --> 00:33:39.711
Eye creams, any of that kind of stuff?

00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:59.163
No, but I was going to say you know a lot of sunscreens now they incorporate in an antioxidant like vitamin C or vitamin E, so it may be that you don't necessarily have to do, when you're younger, that separate vitamin C component, um, but I do agree that you definitely.

00:33:59.163 --> 00:34:04.701
If you're going to be using vitamin c's, you probably want those more uh stable, uh stable versions.

00:34:05.262 --> 00:34:14.755
Sorry, you asked me a question at the end and I backtracked I was wondering if they like, if they need eye cream, or if someone has acne, where do they put it in that step?

00:34:14.755 --> 00:34:18.869
Because it's often obvious to us to go from thinnest product to thickest product.

00:34:18.869 --> 00:34:23.864
I think it's not obvious for most people like what order of steps to go in.

00:34:24.567 --> 00:34:31.184
Yeah, so I definitely do not think that kids necessarily need a dedicated eye cream.

00:34:31.184 --> 00:34:33.487
I honestly am not sure that most adults do.

00:34:33.487 --> 00:34:43.641
I mean, a lot of times we can get those same ingredients that are in our facial products and just extend it up to include the eyelid skin and the neck.

00:34:43.882 --> 00:34:45.746
And the chest, I agree 100%.

00:34:45.766 --> 00:34:46.768
I don't necessarily think you.

00:34:46.768 --> 00:34:52.681
I mean unless, like you, have puffiness and you want a caffeine product that you know you don't have caffeine in the rest of your skincare.

00:34:52.681 --> 00:34:53.724
Maybe then it makes sense.

00:34:53.724 --> 00:34:59.436
But I think that's a lot of overhyped, a lot, and kids definitely don't need it.

00:35:00.438 --> 00:35:25.972
In terms of order, like if a kid is starting to break out, I think the most important things are to be sure that they're dialed in with the consistency, okay, of cleansing and using sunscreen, maybe moisturizer, of cleansing and using sunscreen, maybe moisturizer, depending on what's going on and what their preferences are, but the consistency of that for a while, because a lot of times they're not.

00:35:25.992 --> 00:35:35.711
Maybe they're washing their face once a week, so it's dialing in that consistency and then, if they're still having problems, adding in actives that make sense for what's going on.

00:35:35.711 --> 00:35:42.027
So let's say that they're starting to get some, you know, whiteheads and blackheads.

00:35:42.027 --> 00:35:50.400
Maybe they want to add in a cleanser that has salicylic acid that still keeps it pretty gentle but it's going to deep clean those pores a little bit more.

00:35:50.400 --> 00:36:07.460
Maybe they want to do an over-the-counter retinoid that is for acne, like a dappling or differin as the brand name, and so that would go on after they cleanse and then before their moisturizer.

00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:24.150
Um, so those are two great over-the-products over-the-counter products that I will I think are fairly mild and tolerable, that can be easily added into skincare, a skincare regimen for a kid who's starting to break out.

00:36:24.431 --> 00:36:25.293
Yeah, I agree.

00:36:25.293 --> 00:36:26.822
I think that's a really good point.

00:36:26.822 --> 00:36:39.253
Okay, so let's do some myth busters, yes, okay, what are the top three things you hear about that people have heard on social media that are completely false or more false than true?

00:36:39.253 --> 00:36:44.393
Let's just say more false than true because we don't really live in a world where everything's so black and white.

00:36:44.393 --> 00:36:47.204
What do you think of red light masks?

00:36:47.204 --> 00:36:48.909
Let's do that one.

00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:49.722
I was thinking.

00:36:49.722 --> 00:36:52.070
That was the top thing that came to my head as I was thinking of others.

00:36:52.070 --> 00:37:02.706
I do think red light can be helpful, but I do think you have to be really consistent with it and I do think the benefits are fairly mild.

00:37:02.706 --> 00:37:12.163
But I do think there's some reasonable evidence suggesting some benefit with consistency with a product that is reasonably powered.

00:37:13.065 --> 00:37:14.690
I agree, I fully agree.

00:37:14.690 --> 00:37:16.034
I mean to boost mitochondria.

00:37:16.034 --> 00:37:23.188
It's just that the devices aren't regulated and we don't always know what's the right distance, what's the fluence, what are the settings of the red light?

00:37:23.188 --> 00:37:26.971
I use a panel personally because I want to treat all my body the same.

00:37:26.971 --> 00:37:40.186
But there's a sweet spot, like there's a biphasic curve, where not enough red light will not stimulate mitochondria and then too much will actually produce too much reactive oxygen species and then you're getting more inflammation than you wanted in the first place.

00:37:40.186 --> 00:37:45.954
So I agree, I'm not a fan of the mask so much because my face isn't separate from the rest of me.

00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.268
Yeah, I mean, and at least if you're doing a mask, you're treating your whole face.

00:37:52.268 --> 00:37:54.980
I'm definitely not a fan of these wands that, like spot treat an area.

00:37:55.201 --> 00:37:56.326
Tell me what that is about.

00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:06.090
I mean, I guess it's just a way to have a less expensive product that still can be sold as a red light.

00:38:06.090 --> 00:38:10.809
Yeah, you can get these little red lights that are just wands that you, you know hold Maybe you know hold to treat the specific spots.

00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:15.351
So I mean, imagine how long that's going to take to like treat your entire face if that's what you're trying to use it for.

00:38:15.351 --> 00:38:18.608
So, at least a mask, you're covering a whole area.

00:38:18.608 --> 00:38:25.405
But yeah, you can now get products that brands have, like their neck version and their hand gloves.

00:38:25.405 --> 00:38:29.740
But I agree, the panel is nice, um, but those are obviously more expensive.

00:38:30.563 --> 00:38:34.150
I've had the same one for five years and I haven't replaced a light bulb yet.

00:38:34.150 --> 00:38:35.460
Wow, that crazy.

00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.485
And I do it every morning for about 15 minutes.

00:38:37.485 --> 00:38:40.550
Um, but I think it's a bonus add-on.

00:38:40.550 --> 00:38:51.300
I mean, we want to go back to prioritizing things, so probably sunscreen and cleanser are always going to be our top two things, and then we add little things at a time.

00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:52.503
These are not necessities.

00:38:52.503 --> 00:38:55.592
They're sort of like dessert after a healthy meal, right like?

00:38:55.592 --> 00:39:01.802
I don't think I wouldn't prescribe red light for people, for teens especially, you know, I just wouldn't, okay.

00:39:01.802 --> 00:39:04.050
So what about derma rollers?

00:39:04.050 --> 00:39:07.648
What do you think about derma rollers or at-home microneedling devices?

00:39:07.889 --> 00:39:08.429
Not a fan.

00:39:08.871 --> 00:39:11.222
Of either, or just the derma roller.

00:39:12.023 --> 00:39:13.045
I am not a fan.

00:39:13.045 --> 00:39:17.512
I think of either, but definitely not the roller.

00:39:17.512 --> 00:39:34.976
I just think it introduces too much potential to tear your skin and even with like the stamping versions of these, I think that there's a lot of risk in terms of like cleaning it being sure that there's, you know, infection risk is controlled.

00:39:34.976 --> 00:39:36.726
It just makes me a little bit nervous.

00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.349
I agree, because what we're trying to do in these, you probably get sent a lot.

00:39:40.349 --> 00:39:41.052
I get sent a lot of these things.

00:39:41.052 --> 00:39:42.697
Yeah, just to know we're trying to do in these, you probably get sent a lot.

00:39:42.697 --> 00:39:43.661
I get sent a lot of these things.

00:39:43.661 --> 00:39:46.007
Yeah, Just to know we're not selling out.

00:39:46.007 --> 00:39:50.045
You know we can get paid a lot of money to advocate these things and I just won't.

00:39:50.045 --> 00:40:08.621
Because with microneedling we're doing controlled trauma in the skin to stimulate collagen, but too much trauma is always going to be a scar, which is why, like with laser treatments, over the years I've seen so many people with terrible scarring because they've had really bad lasers.

00:40:08.621 --> 00:40:16.427
So, while something can give you really good results, if it's not done properly it can cause scarring which is not really reversible.

00:40:16.427 --> 00:40:19.074
Um, okay, what about?

00:40:19.074 --> 00:40:21.820
What about those cold rollers, those ice rollers?

00:40:22.922 --> 00:40:25.304
I'm okay with those as long as you're.

00:40:25.304 --> 00:40:28.088
I mean again, there's always risk with everything that we do.

00:40:28.088 --> 00:40:40.664
I mean you could certainly really traumatize your skin if you hold one of those too long on a certain spot, but, you know, for puffiness around the eyes.

00:40:40.684 --> 00:40:41.266
I mean, I struggle with that.

00:40:41.266 --> 00:40:44.842
So sometimes, if it's a morning and I'm getting up early, I'll do a little bit of that.

00:40:44.842 --> 00:40:49.880
Um, acne, I mean I do think if you have a really inflamed acne bump, that it can be helpful.

00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:53.750
Okay, um, and you know it's, I think it's pretty safe and easy.

00:40:54.411 --> 00:41:00.105
Um, so I am, I like those yeah, not so harmful and maybe some results.

00:41:00.105 --> 00:41:01.889
So we're really like anti-harm.

00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:04.061
If there's a risk of harm we're kind of against it.

00:41:04.061 --> 00:41:05.286
Okay, yeah, I don't.

00:41:05.286 --> 00:41:13.320
You know what I do for puffiness, I just do I'll do 30 to 50 jumping jacks and drink a bunch of water, cause I figured that kind of stimulates my lymphatics.

00:41:14.242 --> 00:41:22.655
No, I mean I love that, but you know, if I'm like trying to hurry up and get out the door, or, you know, get on camera for something right away.

00:41:22.655 --> 00:41:24.844
It's like I just I need like a fast fix.

00:41:24.844 --> 00:41:34.465
I don't have the time to down the water, but obviously very important to stay hydrated and adequate sleep all of those things too Right, I know always what about.

00:41:35.628 --> 00:41:36.771
I said we wouldn't have to go here.

00:41:36.771 --> 00:41:38.121
But what about the salmon sperm?

00:41:38.121 --> 00:41:41.025
I'm sorry, I think this is just so crazy.

00:41:41.025 --> 00:41:41.746
Okay, what about salmon sperm?

00:41:41.746 --> 00:41:42.387
Salmon sperm.

00:41:42.407 --> 00:41:46.751
I'm sorry, I think this is just so crazy.

00:41:46.751 --> 00:41:48.273
Okay, what about salmon sperm?

00:41:48.273 --> 00:41:50.376
You know, I think that it's it could be helpful.

00:41:50.376 --> 00:41:53.280
I mean, I definitely have seen, okay, so I don't use it.

00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:55.748
I have not brought this into my practice so I don't have any like firsthand, like experience with patients.

00:41:55.748 --> 00:42:05.887
But I do follow a lot of people who use this in their practice and do have patients who seem to really like this a lot and it's been a treatment over in Korea for a really long time.

00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:17.382
But it's hard to know because, like most of the time, it's used in a very detailed regimen, you know, and people who are getting a lot of other procedures.

00:42:17.382 --> 00:42:24.346
So, okay, great, they look amazing, their skin is all glowy, but what are the other things that they're doing that are contributing to it as well?

00:42:24.346 --> 00:42:25.869
So that's tough to sort out.

00:42:25.869 --> 00:42:32.811
But yeah, I mean I don't exactly know how they get it, but you know it is an animal product.

00:42:32.811 --> 00:42:48.436
I kind of think of myself as an animal lover, so you know, I mean I guess, from what I understand very superficially, that you know the salmon are not hurt in this procedure and they can, like, continue to live.

00:42:48.436 --> 00:43:00.932
So I'm not opposed to trying it, but I don't know that it's like this kind of sea that you know, currently it's just a big.

00:43:01.094 --> 00:43:02.494
It's a huge viral trend.

00:43:02.755 --> 00:43:04.422
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

00:43:04.422 --> 00:43:06.853
I'm kind of curious to lean in and hear more.

00:43:06.853 --> 00:43:12.530
Yeah, I think it's probably going to be a trend that comes and goes a little bit or is used in conjunction with other things.

00:43:12.530 --> 00:43:20.983
I think if I had a daughter or if I had a certain amount of money, I'd probably direct my funds towards something else at this point.

00:43:20.983 --> 00:43:22.505
It's kind of how I look at it.

00:43:22.505 --> 00:43:25.271
But I'm just not a absolutely not sort of person.

00:43:25.271 --> 00:43:29.851
I just that's why I wanted to ask you, because you're you're definitely more on the cutting edge of trends than I am.

00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.407
Yeah, I think that's that's a good, that's a good summary of it.

00:43:33.407 --> 00:43:55.545
You know, I mean, I do think that if it's kind of like the red light, like if you're doing everything else and you know you're getting maybe a more aggressive laser procedure every once in a while and you're really, uh, dialed in on your skincare, you know, maybe, and you're getting microneedling and maybe you want, you know, every once in a while, to have that microneedled in, oh, okay, maybe if you're comfortable with the source yeah, I mean for teens.

00:43:55.565 --> 00:44:01.947
We're looking at instilling a regimen and a routine for you to start taking care of yourself.

00:44:01.947 --> 00:44:05.081
That's not complicated, that's not going to hurt you as an adult.

00:44:05.081 --> 00:44:15.092
We're doing a little bit more proactive things for targeting pigmentation or aging and that's where, like red light and exosomes, I find help, healing post-procedures.

00:44:15.092 --> 00:44:19.985
Yet I cycle them in and out of the routine and the rituals.

00:44:19.985 --> 00:44:20.987
So okay.

00:44:20.987 --> 00:44:29.244
So if a teenager has, say, their parents give them $150 budget a month, how should they use it?

00:44:31.389 --> 00:44:36.164
Well, I think, if they're sticking to the Obviously on your skincare.

00:44:36.385 --> 00:44:40.581
Yeah Well, I initially was going to say that and then I didn't want to say that, which is still would not cost that much money.

00:44:40.581 --> 00:44:43.105
I initially was going to say that and then I didn't want to say that, which still would not cost that much money.

00:44:43.105 --> 00:44:46.347
But you know, I think that it would be hard to spend that much money.

00:44:46.347 --> 00:45:00.309
If we stayed in the confines of my recommendations of a cleanser, moisturizer and sunscreen, I would love to say, maybe do what I do and buy like multiple sunscreens because I think that's fun.

00:45:00.309 --> 00:45:06.588
Right, you have tinted ones, you have untinted ones, you have different brands that have different feels, they layer differently.

00:45:06.588 --> 00:45:14.432
So you know, maybe work on your sunscreen collection, but in terms of like other things that they might want to do, I guess is what you're asking.

00:45:14.432 --> 00:45:20.211
Like what other things beyond the typical regimen is what you're asking.

00:45:21.141 --> 00:45:21.385
Yeah, like.

00:45:21.385 --> 00:45:22.260
Are there supplements?

00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:23.188
Yeah, are regimen is what you're asking.

00:45:23.188 --> 00:45:23.853
Yeah, like, are there supplements?

00:45:23.853 --> 00:45:24.177
Are there foods?

00:45:24.177 --> 00:45:26.043
Are there devices?

00:45:26.043 --> 00:45:30.572
Are there any other things outside of just the topical skincare we talked about?

00:45:30.572 --> 00:45:35.039
That someone can do when they're younger that will help them have good skin throughout their lifetime.

00:45:35.581 --> 00:45:54.250
So I do think it's reasonable to start a polypodium supplement, and I did recently read an article or saw something published about the youngest age that it was studied in, and now I can't remember off the top of my head, but I want to say it was like about six, it was young, it was four to seven.

00:45:54.250 --> 00:45:54.992
Was it four to seven?

00:45:55.139 --> 00:45:56.021
Yes, somewhere in there.

00:45:56.021 --> 00:45:57.525
It was fine.

00:45:57.525 --> 00:46:00.713
It's a fern extract, polypodium leucotomus.

00:46:00.713 --> 00:46:02.746
We've talked about it before with Dr Katie Varmann.

00:46:02.746 --> 00:46:07.380
There's two dermatologists that make supplements that I know about containing polypodium.

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:32.969
There's Inner Glow Vitamins and then Soul Care MD that are made by Dr Noreen Gallaria and then Dr Katie Varmann, and they're both very, very intentional about the way they created these supplements, and one of them is a gummy, which you know it's easier for the teens to take I find my boys will take that and the other one's a capsule, and then one of them is like a hard pill.

00:46:32.969 --> 00:46:37.563
So but go ahead with the polypodium like, take it every day.

00:46:37.764 --> 00:46:46.911
Yeah, I think take it every day is totally reasonable, definitely in the summer months, and maybe that makes sense in like the Midwest or something where there's, you know, less sun exposure.00:46:46.911 --> 00:46:49.380


But again, I think it's a routine thing, just like the sunscreen.00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:55.492


Like I'm never going to really tell someone that they should stop at certain times of the year because then you just fall out of the habit.00:46:55.492 --> 00:47:04.242


So I think it's a reasonable every day one to take In terms of like other supplements.00:47:04.242 --> 00:47:10.682


I mean I definitely am an advocate of certain other supplements for adults, but like for kids, that's probably as far as I go, unless there's something we're trying to address.00:47:10.682 --> 00:47:26.434


So if someone is having acne and maybe they don't have the best diet, I mean of course I do talk to them about ways to change their nutrition, improve their gut health, but I may recommend a probiotic, for example, um which?00:47:26.594 --> 00:47:28.141


which probiotic do you like for acne?00:47:28.561 --> 00:47:30.286


So I?00:47:30.286 --> 00:47:43.608


There's one on Amazon, which I'm not going to be able to remember the name of, but the one I have in the off in my office is from face reality and it has the typical um bacteria that were generally studied Um the um.00:47:43.608 --> 00:47:46.074


I'm going to blank on these now too.00:47:46.521 --> 00:47:48.864


Like lactobacillus remnosus the remnosus.00:47:49.344 --> 00:47:52.155


And then there's one other one, but it contains both of those.00:47:52.155 --> 00:48:04.552


So I will usually recommend that if we're, particularly if someone has like a kind of a not great diet, you know, lots of processed foods, lots of sugary foods, I will obviously talk to them about that but then encourage a probiotic.00:48:04.552 --> 00:48:24.012


Yeah, I agree, if someone has, you know, is struggling with rosacea, for example, I may recommend like an omega-3 supplement and, you know, maybe there's other things too, but those are sort of like the for sure supplements that I might suggest with somebody.00:48:24.012 --> 00:48:29.639


I'd love to know your take, if you know about this Skin Better supplement that just launched.00:48:30.161 --> 00:48:31.186


I saw that.00:48:31.186 --> 00:48:47.764


I saw that and I saw there was a five-part series that a bunch of people like, from Dr Vallocchi to I'm blanking on her name- oh my gosh that she does all Dr Vallocchi to.00:48:47.784 --> 00:48:48.387


I'm blanking on her name um uh.00:48:48.407 --> 00:48:48.969


Oh my gosh that she does all.00:48:48.969 --> 00:48:49.472


Dr Zoe, yeah, she's been.00:48:49.472 --> 00:48:54.045


You know, she has such an interesting background as a chemist and I am really intrigued with it.00:48:54.045 --> 00:48:55.949


Actually, I'm really intrigued.00:48:55.949 --> 00:49:01.509


The price point's a little high for me to want to commit at this point, because I do take a lot of supplements.00:49:01.509 --> 00:49:03.340


I am intrigued, you know.00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:09.322


I'm always a little hesitant, though, like regarding some of the studies that people set up to be perfect for them.00:49:10.164 --> 00:49:20.103


Yeah, no, I mean that is true, I mean, of course, they show like really beautiful images of, you know, decreased evidence of the glycation of collagen and like these biopsies.00:49:20.103 --> 00:49:30.969


But I think it's really interesting and, if it does work, not only implications really for the skin and maintaining our collagen there, but I mean, why wouldn't it help collagen and the rest of our body?00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:35.155


Exactly Like I love the inside out approach and I think we really never.00:49:35.155 --> 00:49:38.302


We always believe there was no way to reverse glycation.00:49:38.302 --> 00:49:45.813


So I always think of it as like our body starts to cook from the inside out from the minute we're born and it's just a matter of how slow we can cook it right.00:49:45.813 --> 00:50:03.934


So the fact that maybe we can reverse some of this glycation, where the sugar the glycation, by the way is just when sugar molecules bind with different proteins in our body, whether it's a blood vessel or the collagen in our skin, and it makes it really rigid and stiff and that's why people end up with deep creases rather than the resiliency of the skin.00:50:03.934 --> 00:50:06.809


So if there's a way to reverse that, that's game changing.00:50:07.581 --> 00:50:11.271


I will probably try it, because I end up trying almost all of them.00:50:11.271 --> 00:50:15.550


I've tried the supplements with Vitamedico, with Glycidin Skin from years ago.00:50:15.550 --> 00:50:20.411


There's just so many I've tried over the years that I will probably try it.00:50:20.411 --> 00:50:23.661


I'm I'm just more of a learner observer for a little while.00:50:23.661 --> 00:50:27.871


Try it for a little while and then things will disappear or stick around at that point.00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.791


Yeah, no, I'm, I started taking it Um have you noticed anything?00:50:32.791 --> 00:50:33.331


I don't.00:50:33.331 --> 00:50:36.364


It's hard to say I mean, I don't know.00:50:36.364 --> 00:50:40.393


I do all these other things too, so it's so hard to know like do you want to buy FC your skin?00:50:41.034 --> 00:50:57.925


Um, but to your point, I mean I do have some patients that are on it, but to your point, it is like expensive and it's really interesting the way that and and I have not seen like a reason or chatted with with somebody on their team to like get the exact reasoning of this.00:50:57.925 --> 00:51:05.025


But you know, you really start high dose, like six pills a day for a month and then you go down to four pills a day.00:51:05.025 --> 00:51:13.655


Um, so I mean you go through a lot of supplement to get, you know, amped up on this and I don't know, do you have to do that?00:51:13.655 --> 00:51:16.344


Like, is there some reason that you have to do that?00:51:16.344 --> 00:51:21.556


Because that's a lot of money, uh to to go through a lot of pills and a lot of pills.00:51:21.597 --> 00:51:22.599


I mean there's no problem.00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:26.070


I mean they're easy to, they're capsules, they're very, they're small, they go down easily.00:51:26.070 --> 00:51:28.485


It's not a problem, but it's just it's.00:51:28.485 --> 00:51:30.570


It's a lot of money, particularly at that beginning.00:51:30.570 --> 00:51:31.010


How?00:51:31.130 --> 00:51:36.525


okay, so how what's the mechanism?00:51:36.525 --> 00:51:36.824


Of action.00:51:36.824 --> 00:51:37.686


I'm blanking on it.00:51:37.686 --> 00:51:40.168


So it's a rosemary, it's a away from thinking.00:51:40.168 --> 00:51:43.391


Maybe if I just add more rosemary to my food Right?00:51:43.472 --> 00:51:55.882


I don't know, I don't know, but they do say that it is a specific extract and you know they had to go through this special process to distill it, and but I don't know beyond that.00:51:56.101 --> 00:51:57.284


But yeah, I don't know either.00:51:57.284 --> 00:52:12.255


I mean, it goes back to the fact that our skin is an inside out job whether it's screaming at us because we have some inflammation going on internally, as you mentioned earlier, or whether we can potentially make our skin look better by doing something from the inside.00:52:12.255 --> 00:52:15.429


The easiest thing is food, just having good food choices.00:52:15.429 --> 00:52:17.726


So I mean, I love all that.00:52:17.726 --> 00:52:18.710


This is a great discussion.00:52:18.710 --> 00:52:31.331


I think we're going to be evolving more towards an inside-out approach, and I studied nutrition undergrad so I've always had that kind of interest and, um, what I learned was basically opposite of what we believe now and we're ever evolving.00:52:31.331 --> 00:52:36.690


It was the low fat, high carb phase, and you know our skin is a bilipid membrane.00:52:36.690 --> 00:52:41.007


Why would we not want to have healthy fats, but unhealthy fats will will do things as as well.00:52:41.007 --> 00:52:44.063


So, yeah, it's just, it's really really interesting.00:52:44.063 --> 00:52:44.987


Okay, so what else?00:52:44.987 --> 00:52:45.949


What else do you recommend?00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:47.161


Anything else that I didn't touch on?00:52:47.963 --> 00:52:48.402


Oh my gosh.00:52:48.402 --> 00:52:49.806


We talked about so many things.00:52:51.047 --> 00:52:51.427


Right.00:52:52.590 --> 00:53:27.768


Oh, um, well, one other um, I don't know, it was not actually a myth, but a trend that I would love to chat about and ask if you've heard of this is you're aware, I'm sure you're aware of the UV index, and so, for people listening, the UV index takes into account your location, the elevation of where you are, the temperature, and tells you the rate of UV exposure you're getting on a scale of one to ten, with one being the lowest and ten being the highest.00:53:28.250 --> 00:53:36.054


Well, obviously, it was created so that we can understand oh, this is a time where you might need to be more protected.00:53:36.054 --> 00:53:41.704


You know you'd want to be more careful if you're outside because you're going to be getting more radiation from the sun.00:53:41.704 --> 00:53:47.387


Well, kids, now they are using this, I like to say, for evil.00:53:47.387 --> 00:53:55.293


There is this huge push I mean it's all over social media Kids using this like that's when they want to go outside to tan.00:53:55.293 --> 00:53:56.514


So they will call.00:53:56.514 --> 00:54:09.726


I mean parents post about this like their kid will call from you know high school and be like I got to come home, the UV is going to be eight today.00:54:09.726 --> 00:54:13.139


I got to work on my tan, so it's just I wanted to point out that trend to let, to let people know that's not what we should be doing for the UV index.00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:14.043


That's so interesting.00:54:14.043 --> 00:54:15.989


I didn't think tans were trendy anymore.00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:17.702


Oh my gosh, they are so trendy.00:54:17.702 --> 00:54:24.074


There is this huge backlash against sunscreen, for a lot of reasons, I think.00:54:24.074 --> 00:54:27.630


But yeah, people are against sunscreen.00:54:27.630 --> 00:54:38.929


They are against smart sun protection measures, unless I think they have someone you know, a trusted source that they can go to, or a parent that's really into this.00:54:38.929 --> 00:54:43.260


But yeah, there's this huge surge in tanning now and avoiding sunscreen.00:54:43.362 --> 00:54:46.449


Well, if you were tanning, you might as well not use any skincare.00:54:46.449 --> 00:54:48.204


I just want to say that that's ridiculous.00:54:48.204 --> 00:54:49.570


I mean, I did it.00:54:49.570 --> 00:54:51.436


I didn't wear sunscreen until I was 30.00:54:51.597 --> 00:54:51.677


And.00:54:51.717 --> 00:54:54.483


I remember when it first came out I was like ew, why would anyone want to use that?00:54:54.483 --> 00:54:56.967


I specifically go in the sun to get a tan.00:54:56.967 --> 00:55:01.036


That's the main reason, and now I regret it, now that I know what I know.00:55:01.036 --> 00:55:02.038


You know, but it's.00:55:02.038 --> 00:55:04.583


It's almost reckless knowing what we know now.00:55:04.583 --> 00:55:07.831


It's sort of like my mom smoked when she was pregnant with me.00:55:07.831 --> 00:55:13.172


She goes we didn't know any better, but now we know better, so you can't unknow what you already know.00:55:13.172 --> 00:55:18.932


So now that you're hearing this from us, you know better and you can't unknow what you already know.00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:34.619


So, whether it's the sun causing dried skin cells that are going to clog your pores and cause more acne might look better for like a day or two, but then it ends up rebounding and look worse or wrinkles down the road just watch the movie Something About Mary and you'll know what we're talking about.00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:37.563


Anyway, I love having you on, dr Jeffy.00:55:37.563 --> 00:55:42.789


I feel like we could talk all day, but I really want everyone to be able to find your website and follow you on social.00:55:42.789 --> 00:55:46.954


You have so many great educational things, so can you let everyone know how to find you?00:55:47.615 --> 00:55:47.835


Yes.00:55:47.835 --> 00:56:01.012


So on socials, my handle is at Brooke Jeffy MD and I am on TikTok and Instagram, and if you're local to Scottsdale, check out my practice website, which is Brooke Jeffy MD dot com.00:56:01.900 --> 00:56:04.740


We will have it all in the show notes, thank you, thank you.00:56:04.740 --> 00:56:08.710


Thank you for joining us on Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin.00:56:08.710 --> 00:56:14.030


It's an honor to be part of your skincare journey and if you love this episode, make sure to subscribe.00:56:14.030 --> 00:56:24.699


Leave us a glowing review and share it with someone who's passionate about their skincare journey, and please connect with us on social to ask your questions, which will drive future educational episodes.